Ah, thanks very much. I was a bit confused. I saw the star and immediately thought it was the upvote button, and thought the boost button looks like a share button. But than when I saw it was for 'boosting', I figured that an upvote is usually meant for boosting and that that's what the boost button was the equivalent of.
And Hey, I love your artworks and your artstyle so much! So you're now the first profile I've followed! You appeared up the top of the trending list for me.
@lutfulmanan The Open Web is the Web we still have for now.
Someone saw those embarrassing "Best viewed with Microsoft Internet Explorer" GIFs and thought that not only was it a great idea, it didn't even go far enough, as it didn't actively block other browsers.
@clacke In light of Cloudflare and other walled-gardens, CAPTCHAs, etc, I cannot see how anyone can say we have an “open web”. @lutfulmanan /cc @hambach18
@graves501 Okay, errm... I don't know if that was a good idea actually. I like it, I like it a lot. But I'm not sure to like it enough for a big, menacing, ominous Chrome-looking eyeball to jump scare the hell out of me every time I boot up my PC. 😅
@graves501 yes! TY for this, already set as my wallpaper, I do have a quick question, would it be ok if one was to make videos about Linux/how to's and the wallpaper showed up in the video?
@obi0bi@graves501 This piece of art by David is licenced under CC-BY 4.0 - you can use it however you want, however you must credit the author of the work.
@obi0bi@davidrevoy according to the license on the image, it's completely ok for you to do that, you just have to mention that the wallpaper was made by him and link to it. It's probably fine to put the link in the description.
This is now the background of the lock screen of my Google Pixel tablet, I wanted to use it as the wallpaper but it is unfortunately too blue for that. Might do it on my Linux desktop even thought it lack the irony of the Pixel. 🎂
This is so true! Firefox has been my go-to for web browsers for probably over a decade. I hope they keep on fighting for all of us. #firefoxforever#firefox
Epic. We must also protect adblockers, not just Firefox (which is important in its own way). Advertising has become completely untrustworthy with the use of extensive data tracking and such, and it's just irritating to see just how much companies are willing to exploit you just so you can buy whatever's on the screen now.
This sums up my feelings on the matter… I don't like everything Mozilla does, but my quibbles with them are far outweighed by my deep distrust of Google, and it does feel like a long, drawn out battle.
The circumstances for making this piece of art are unfortunate, but your end result is very pretty.
Une oeuvre qui représente tellement de choses en ces moments troubles, applicable au meilleur face aux pires, théologiquement, philosophiquement, humainement parlant de vérités et de libertés.
Je sais: j'en fais trop; mais la liberté peut au moins se targuée d'être illustrée avec bonté et beauté de façon admirable sous votre plume.
Merci...encore...et en cœur...encore et en chœurs...
Your work and philosophy has always been an inspiration to me. This piece is striking in depicting our struggle for the Net in way that's so relevant but keeps your trademark sense of fantasy and wonder.
I hope one day I can make work like this, that makes people feel and go "Wow", without being a preachy political cartoon.
Art like this can change the course of history. <3 We are small, but mighty. . .brb let's all uninstall Chrome together. 😁
Love your work, David. And it’s definitely not your fault that we live in the worst possible timeline but what’s missing in that image is the hand from Google giving Mozilla half a billion dollars.
(Mozilla exists on roughly half a billion dollars from Google every year. Sadly, they’re not so much adversaries as partners.)
Well, a huge benefit Google gets from keeping FF afloat is that Google gets to make the disingenous claim that they aren't a monopolist, which politicians and regulators get to use as a deflection when criticized for failing to regulate them.
@aral That would be bad for sure, but Google isn't the ExxonMobil equivalent though so it doesn't really work as a comparison. Maybe if ExxonMobil funded Neste (a finnish petrol company) in that comparison it would work.
@laukanhenkka FYI #Google is partnered with #Totaal oil company and uses AI to help Totaal determine where to drill. So @aral’s analogy would be slightly more spot-on with Total Oil. IIRC, #ExxonMobil is partnered with #Microsoft in the same way.
I should also mention that Mozilla gets ~87% of its funding from Google, fwiw.. might be easier to absorb than the raw figures.
I can’t view video ATM so if the talks already covered any of that, sorry for the redundancy. @toolbear
@aral@laukanhenkka@toolbear do you want Hitler to lose a billion dollars or not? I assume that you have no qualms about someone breaking into Hitler's vault, or hacking his bank account, and taking a billion dollars.
However, getting paid usually comes with some strings attached, and that's where the problem is.
Still, if Hitler would give me a billion dollars in exchange for writing "Jews must die" in giant letters on my fence, I think that would be a good tradeoff. That's basically what Mozilla has to do for Google: metaphorically write "Use Google to search" on the front of its building. Hitler being poorer does much more good for the world than a sign does bad. I might be obligated to donate the whole billion to an anti-Nazi charity.
@immibis@laukanhenkka@toolbear Wow, man, I’m sorry but no. Just no. If that’s a trade you’re willing to make, we have nothing in common. And I’m blocking you now.
@immibis There’s an article out in the wild called “the power of defaults” which I suggest you read. Google and DDG both bribe browser makers to make their search service the default & Google obviously has deeper pockets for that. @aral@laukanhenkka@toolbear
@immibis@aral@laukanhenkka@toolbear Is this real? Someone who "gives you 1 billion dollars" doesn't have a truck full of cash that they roll up to your door and deliver to you. Do you even understand how the world works?
@immibis@aral@laukanhenkka@toolbear yes, I do. A hypothetical situation is one that is like reality, but different in an important way, and that difference often exposes important factors of the original situation.
Your example is a children's story, not a hypothetical situation. Supposing that someone "loses" a billion dollars when they contribute it to someone else is not grounded in how the real world works in any way. That's not a hypothetical, and it offers no insight into how the world works.
People with that much money don't roll a cart up to someone, give them the money, and walk away. That much money is tied up in assets and influence. That much money is usually transferred by creating an organized group of people to tend to the money, and through which its influence is controlled. That much money is game-changing. That much money is existential for most recipients, and they know that, and they adapt accordingly.
I'm prone to Manichean thinking as well, but that isn't useful here. I won't be addressing the morality framing.
> I mean, wouldn't it be even worse if they weren't around?
Not necessarily. FF is using up the "browser for the people" mindshare — even in this conversation right now. If they didn't exist, maybe a browser making developer co-op would instead. Probably not, but FF doesn't exist in a vacuum. Even if they aren't useful idiots for Google or effectively bought, they using up resources for what could be a more democratic alternative. They aren't employee owned. They don't have a union.
An alternative company might not have dumped millions into AI snakeoil like FF just did.
FF corp isn't our friend. Isn't on our side. Isn't accountable to us.
Also, fuck their shielding of homophobe Brendan Eich. Not like that shit was a secret before he was ousted.
And if Google is seen as having too much vested interest in lobbying for a certain subject regarding regulation, Mozilla can step in as the acceptable face of Silicon Valley.
As their head of public policy once told me while asking me to go easier on them: “We’re just another Silicon Valley tech company, I don’t know why you’re holding us to such a higher standard.”
@laukanhenkka Google is a publicly-traded corporation with a fiduciary duty to its shareholders.
They cannot just give some organisation half a billion dollars unless they can make the case that they’re getting more than half a billion dollars of value back from their investment.
Most visibly, Mozilla makes Google its default search engine on Firefox.
More than that, Mozilla gets to exist thanks to Google. No half a billion a year from Google, no Mozilla, no Firefox.
Yes, I knew that. Thank you for writing this, it is useful information.
It's hard to show all the subtle interactions and I had to sit on my own issues with Moz/Ff - e.g. all their failed non-sense side projects or recently their AI discourse to seduce investors.
It's a limitation of my illustration that I kept it as simple as possible to be more efficient with the message: if we all used Firefox with UblockOrigin, the toxic adv industry wouldn't be such a monster.
> if we all used Firefox with UblockOrigin, the toxic adv industry wouldn't be such a monster
If we all used Firefox with UblockOrigin, Google would go bankrupt. When Google goes bankrupt, Mozilla would lose the half a billion dollars it needs from Google to survive so Mozilla would also go bankrupt. So the only way Mozilla and Firefox can continue to exist is if we don’t all use Firefox with UblockOrigin. That’s the gambit.
@aral Mozilla doesn't need to survive for Firefox to survive and be useful. There are already many forks of Firefox by people who think Mozilla already shouldn't have survived.
Without google or other ad-funded behemoths, web standard churn would be significantly reduced (and probably redirected to features people actually want).
Non-moz Firefox could keep up. It would be a slower pace than today, but it would be in a better direction.
@aral@immibis Those forks often nix Google as a default search engine, but the problem is the forks are far less popular so the masses do not escape the power of defaults. Also note the reason people favor the official version is to get fast security updates. Some of the forks have been shown to take weeks to apply a patch.
+8/favicon.ico$image,3p,from=~4chan.org|~apple.com|~askubuntu.com|~bahn.de|~bt.com|~douban.com|~ebay.co.uk|~ebay.com|~ebay.com.au|~espn.com|~github.com|~go.com|~jit.si|~live.com|~microsoft.com|~reddit.com|~stackexchange.com|~stackoverflow.com|~streameast.live|~twitter.com|~winfuture.de|~yahoo.com–infosec.place3getimagehttps://tech.lgbt/favicon.ico+8/favicon.ico$image,3p,from=~4chan.org|~apple.com|~askubuntu.com|~bahn.de|~bt.com|~douban.com|~ebay.co.uk|~ebay.com|~ebay.com.au|~espn.com|~github.com|~go.com|~jit.si|~live.com|~microsoft.com|~reddit.com|~stackexchange.com|~stackoverflow.com|~streameast.live|~twitter.com|~winfuture.de|~yahoo.com–(Original message has been truncated: read the complete original message here.)
This is an amazing piece of artwork. Firefox in many ways feels like the last bastion before total chrome domination (ref browser engines), and that's such a scary thought.
Google has far too much power now in setting web standards.
Amazing illustration! Nobody in my real life ever understands why Google's or Meta's internet monopolization is a problem, not even the ones familiar with tech at large.
How to use this? (click here to unfold) Open a new Mastodon account on the server of your choice. Then, Copy/Paste the adress above in your Mastodon 'Search' field. The post will appear and you'll be able to fully interact with it. You'll have full control of your posts: edit, remove, etc. After that, your message will appear here.
Just please note that it may take up to 12 hours for your changes to be reflected here.
1421 - 
2035
153 comments
davidrevoy
Here is the painting process of the illustration I posted today. Painted and created with the built-in Krita recorder.
Source file and high resolution wallpaper:: https://www.peppercarrot.com/en/viewer/misc__2023-07-27_Fighting-For-The-Open-Web_by-David-Revoy.html (3840x2047px, license: CC-BY 4.0)
#Mastoart #ArtWithOpensource #krita #video #process
238 ★grindcrank@fnordon.de
This is great!
DreitonLullaby@mastodon.social
@grindcrank Hi, I'm brand new to Mastodon. Is the boost button like an upvote/like/heart from other social media sites.
davidrevoy
@DreitonLullaby Hey, welcome here.
The boost button does 'reshare' the post to your followers.
The star is to like/fav something.
@grindcrank
6 ★DreitonLullaby@mastodon.social
Ah, thanks very much. I was a bit confused. I saw the star and immediately thought it was the upvote button, and thought the boost button looks like a share button. But than when I saw it was for 'boosting', I figured that an upvote is usually meant for boosting and that that's what the boost button was the equivalent of.
And Hey, I love your artworks and your artstyle so much! So you're now the first profile I've followed! You appeared up the top of the trending list for me.
★davidrevoy
@DreitonLullaby
awww. Thanks!
2 ★Aznorth
@DreitonLullaby
Anyway, welcome here !
grindcrank@fnordon.de
@DreitonLullaby Only an info for the author, but no upvote. Timeline here is linear.
lutfulmanan@mastodon.online
What is an Open web? Darknet?
grum999@masto.ai
@lutfulmanan it's not Google Chrome Edge...
I've many things at the office that only works with Edge 😅
★jacabo@piaille.fr
@grum999 @lutfulmanan most often, those services actually work with Firefox, but will pretend not to when detecting it's user agent.
This is not malevolent, just the Devs avoiding supporting multiple platforms to ease their work
Using an extension on Firefox to spoof this user agent, such as https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/user-agent-string-switcher/ may in some case make those apps work.
grum999@masto.ai
@jacabo @lutfulmanan Yes but I don't want to spoof the user agent
also, at the office I can't, everything is locked, practically impossible to modify any settings on laptop without being an administrator 😢
JerryMouse@infosec.place
@grum999 @lutfulmanan Feeling sorry for you... You should upgrade your programs rather than degrading them
lebout2canap@mastodon.tedomum.net
@lutfulmanan Simply a web on which you can browse with the software you want from the OS you want, which has become unacceptable for Alphabet/Google.
raikas@mementomori.social
@lutfulmanan Internet, where one massive company doesn't get to choose who can use the it.
JerryMouse@infosec.place
@raikas @lutfulmanan That would disqualify #CloudFlare as the do #censor the internet an block access to a lot of domains if you are just a little bit into #privacy
starsider@valenciapa.ws
@lutfulmanan A web where the users are in control and are not forced to watch ads and to give up private data.
clacke@libranet.de
@lutfulmanan The Open Web is the Web we still have for now.
Someone saw those embarrassing "Best viewed with Microsoft Internet Explorer" GIFs and thought that not only was it a great idea, it didn't even go far enough, as it didn't actively block other browsers.
That's "Web Environment Integrity".
digitalRightsNinja@fedi.at
@clacke
In light of Cloudflare and other walled-gardens, CAPTCHAs, etc, I cannot see how anyone can say we have an “open web”.
@lutfulmanan
/cc @hambach18
tzafrir@tooot.im
@lutfulmanan
Here is an open web and a closed web:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Garden_orb_weaver05.jpg
efi@chitter.xyz
Tunic
PGtheVRguy@mastodon.gamedev.place
@efi I thought the same too, still amazing art!
efi@chitter.xyz
@PGtheVRguy still? it's a plus!
Takiro@meow.social
@efi
Also Okami final boss.
pbaesse@ursal.zone
amazing art!!
omnisable@meow.social
the scale is somewhat accurate. The user base of FIrefox is unfortunately small and declining 8(
★graves501@fosstodon.org
Amazing artwork!
Is there a 4K version of this picture? This looks like wallpaper material! :)
davidrevoy
@graves501 Thanks, yes! 3840x2047px , Check the links at the bottom of https://www.peppercarrot.com/en/viewer/misc__2023-07-27_Fighting-For-The-Open-Web_by-David-Revoy.html
13 ★graves501@fosstodon.org
Thank you so much! :)
Poslovitch@wikis.world
Thank you! Making this my desktop wallpaper as well, it's stunning!
@graves501
Poslovitch@wikis.world
@graves501 Okay, errm... I don't know if that was a good idea actually.
I like it, I like it a lot.
But I'm not sure to like it enough for a big, menacing, ominous Chrome-looking eyeball to jump scare the hell out of me every time I boot up my PC. 😅
obi0bi@mastodon.social
@graves501 yes! TY for this, already set as my wallpaper, I do have a quick question, would it be ok if one was to make videos about Linux/how to's and the wallpaper showed up in the video?
mattswift@mastodon.social
@obi0bi @graves501 This piece of art by David is licenced under CC-BY 4.0 - you can use it however you want, however you must credit the author of the work.
See this for the licence details: https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/4.0/deed.en
See the original page to see that it's licenced under CC-BY 4.0: https://www.peppercarrot.com/en/viewer/misc__2023-07-27_Fighting-For-The-Open-Web_by-David-Revoy.html
obi0bi@mastodon.social
@mattswift @graves501 thanks, I'm lacking in the common sense department but on the plus side, I got a whole website to check out too 💙️
Untitled_Pribor@kbin.social
@obi0bi @davidrevoy according to the license on the image, it's completely ok for you to do that, you just have to mention that the wallpaper was made by him and link to it. It's probably fine to put the link in the description.
sbrl@fediscience.org
@obi0bi @graves501 it's creative commons attribution, so yes so long as you attribute/cite the source clearly.
pepper1700@mastodon.social
This is now the background of the lock screen of my Google Pixel tablet, I wanted to use it as the wallpaper but it is unfortunately too blue for that. Might do it on my Linux desktop even thought it lack the irony of the Pixel. 🎂
dyen49k@kbin.social
@davidrevoy this is amazing 😻
ShadowJonathan@tech.lgbt
okay wow :blobcateyes:
nc26@mastodon.social
looks like the fox from that video game Tunic.
freeplay@kitsunes.club
@davidrevoy@framapiaf.org the uBlock origin also :ablobfoxbongohyper:
dana_cz@mastodon.art
That's amazing!
elr@fe.disroot.org
Unsure if I would put exactly a Firefox reference or better Carrot with moon powers from a Pale Moon :^3
fabulousfabs@mamot.fr
Absolument magnifique! Bravo David!
Absolutely amazing! Congrat's David !
#MastoArt #krita
Jushido_Brown@fgc.network
Great work!
azlux@social.azlux.fr
@davidrevoy@framapiaf.org Trop bien ! 😺
catrionaroberts@mastodon.art
Wonderful work!!!
vinzv@floss.social
Oh, that is wonderful!
pasci_lei@social.tchncs.de
Reminds me of this, and that is exactly how it feels like.
🖼️ originalolinasc@fosstodon.org
I'd definitely would read or watch this series... cheering for the underdog naturally
★raccoon@den.raccoon.quest
@davidrevoy@framapiaf.org Did google pay for the sword?
Jax_@universeodon.com
That looks really good!
starsider@valenciapa.ws
Stunning. Go, little fox, go!!
saveriobran@mastodon.uno
Luckily, a growing number of people is becoming conscious for an open web... I know a few (French and Italian) sites offering open services:
- https://projectsegfau.lt
- https://devol.it
eaterofsnacks@tilde.zone
@saveriobran I didn't know about the Italian ones, thanks! A lot of the French services can be found here, if anyone's interested:
https://www.chatons.org/
rapta@floss.social
I love the detail of the uBO shield held by little Firefox
#ublock #uBlockOrigin
solarsong@m.cmx.im
I love your art!
teslawf@mamot.fr
ah oui le voyageur dans Destiny 2
chris@galegale.online
that's an awesome pic
Narf_Raccoon@meow.social
This is just, wow. Lovely work 💛
obi0bi@mastodon.social
i love the artwork and the message
cragsand@universeodon.com
Beautiful! Wow
Defaced5960@mastodon.social
This is so true! Firefox has been my go-to for web browsers for probably over a decade. I hope they keep on fighting for all of us. #firefoxforever #firefox
DeltaWye@mstdn.social
We’re fighting it together, side by side! Not just for us but for the next generations!
★morales@pixel.tchncs.de
Tunic?
poppyart@berserker.town
Sees the UBlock Origin logo in the shield.
Epic. We must also protect adblockers, not just Firefox (which is important in its own way). Advertising has become completely untrustworthy with the use of extensive data tracking and such, and it's just irritating to see just how much companies are willing to exploit you just so you can buy whatever's on the screen now.
viji5369@social.bau-ha.us
please make more art with open source content :D
Even though FOSS is far ahead in ethical values, people need an aesthetic narrative to switch.
Unfortunately it's hard to excite people with pure facts.
yon@sakurajima.social
@davidrevoy@framapiaf.org Amazing artist, and walking the walk.
You are an actual inspiration in a sea of the opposite. Keep it up!
heschy@mastodon.social
This is so beautyful, and the Firefox is soo cute 😍
prayag_suthar@mastodon.social
Gorgeous work.... And I also love that it's made with Krita!! 🎨💕
FatehveeronMastodon@mastodon.social
I don't like Chrome. It's made by Google due to the fact that Google is ads.
jovian@piaille.fr
firefox makes me think of the cute fox in tunic. Great art!
digitalfox@yip.vulpine.engineer
This sums up my feelings on the matter… I don't like everything Mozilla does, but my quibbles with them are far outweighed by my deep distrust of Google, and it does feel like a long, drawn out battle.
The circumstances for making this piece of art are unfortunate, but your end result is very pretty.
faoluin@chitter.xyz
Reminds me of the little fox from Tunic. :blobfoxheart:
vegafjord@freeradical.zone
Make the web lighter✊
nunux@mastodon.social
Une oeuvre qui représente tellement de choses en ces moments troubles, applicable au meilleur face aux pires, théologiquement, philosophiquement, humainement parlant de vérités et de libertés.
Je sais: j'en fais trop; mais la liberté peut au moins se targuée d'être illustrée avec bonté et beauté de façon admirable sous votre plume.
Merci...encore...et en cœur...encore et en chœurs...
nunux@mastodon.social
...en corps et en cœurs...encore et en chœurs...
imarfisi@mas.to
★This is fantastic work! 👀 Very inspiring 😍
We are lucky to have you in the #Fediverse.
davidrevoy
@imarfisi
imarfisi@mas.to
can I use your art in the last chapter of my habilitation thesis to direct research? How should I cite it properly?
★Thank you.
davidrevoy
@imarfisi Hey, sure! You can copy the line under my artwork here: https://www.peppercarrot.com/en/viewer/misc__2023-07-27_Fighting-For-The-Open-Web_by-David-Revoy.html , it contains the title, my name and the license.
imarfisi@mas.to
excellent. Thank you!
skelric@mastodon.online
A laudable fight!
The conversation is becoming global so is increasingly a target for those who would control that interaction.
rubencapiau@mastodon.social
That is ... beautiful 🤩. Keep up the good work!
cumberboi@techhub.social
this is so awesome omg
golemwire@librem.one
I was thinking this was a Majora's Mask reference 😄
iok@shelter.moe
une autre magnifique oeuvre mon gars
Saufian
Hop, new wallpaper obtained !
Amazing art :kirby_happy:
doachs@ipv6.social
Pretty sure I can hear this image, and chrome has a very scary sound to it.
yoyunix@mastodon.social
all we can hope for now is that their new ad standard doesn’t catch on… or that someone finds a workaround 🙃
Orca@nya.one
@davidrevoy@framapiaf.org "Big Chrome is watching you"
KyleBlaine@mastodon.gamedev.place
Your work and philosophy has always been an inspiration to me.
This piece is striking in depicting our struggle for the Net in way that's so relevant but keeps your trademark sense of fantasy and wonder.
I hope one day I can make work like this, that makes people feel and go "Wow", without being a preachy political cartoon.
Art like this can change the course of history. <3
We are small, but mighty. . .brb let's all uninstall Chrome together. 😁
theotheroracle@tech.lgbt
what a cool way to illustrate that
simon@mozilla.social
That tiny shield!
twizzay@thisis.mylegendary.quest
You seriously consistently make the coolest stuff. Can we please be friends.
yurec@mast.yurec.online
Wow! So amazing! 🤩
kkarhan@mstdn.social
using @mozilla #Firefox and espechally @torproject #TorBrowser is an act of #Digital #SelfDefense today...
JerryMouse@infosec.place
Very nice, once again you bring a smile and a silent laughter
JerryMouse@infosec.place
Hey David, could I have your permission to use this image in My Privacy DNS's FireFox add-ons README https://mypdns.eu.org/#matrix=tools/README.md (The repo adddress for same https://0xacab.org/my-privacy-dns/matrix/-/blob/master/tools/client_addon.md)
@mypdns
aral@mastodon.ar.al
Love your work, David. And it’s definitely not your fault that we live in the worst possible timeline but what’s missing in that image is the hand from Google giving Mozilla half a billion dollars.
(Mozilla exists on roughly half a billion dollars from Google every year. Sadly, they’re not so much adversaries as partners.)
laukanhenkka@mastodonsuomi.fi
@aral What does this partnership entail? Is FF doing something beneficial for Google to get their money?
toolbear@tech.lgbt
@laukanhenkka @aral
Well, a huge benefit Google gets from keeping FF afloat is that Google gets to make the disingenous claim that they aren't a monopolist, which politicians and regulators get to use as a deflection when criticized for failing to regulate them.
laukanhenkka@mastodonsuomi.fi
@toolbear And how does this make FF the bad guys or partners in crime? I mean, wouldn't it be even worse if they weren't around?
Sounds to me like the bad guys are google, politicians and regulators in that example.
@aral
aral@mastodon.ar.al
@laukanhenkka What would you think if Greenpeace only existed because they took half a billion dollars from ExxonMobil every year?
If you’d be OK with that too, I have nothing more I can say.
@toolbear
laukanhenkka@mastodonsuomi.fi
@aral That would be bad for sure, but Google isn't the ExxonMobil equivalent though so it doesn't really work as a comparison. Maybe if ExxonMobil funded Neste (a finnish petrol company) in that comparison it would work.
@toolbear
toolbear@tech.lgbt
@laukanhenkka @aral
> Google isn't the ExxonMobil equivalent
You are unserious. Bye 👋
laukanhenkka@mastodonsuomi.fi
@toolbear What 🤔 I'm just trying to understand you guys and learn about things. No need to get passive aggressive about it.
Kind of a shitty response to be honest.
@aral
aral@mastodon.ar.al
@laukanhenkka @toolbear OK, there’s not much more I can say if you don’t feel that’s a valid comparison.
If you’d like to learn more about why I feel that it is a valid comparison, here are some talks you can watch: https://ar.al/talks/ and an article you can read: https://ar.al/2019/05/02/slavery-2.0-and-how-to-avoid-it-a-practical-guide-for-cyborgs/
laukanhenkka@mastodonsuomi.fi
@aral Thanks, I'll give it a read/watch.
@toolbear
aral@mastodon.ar.al
@laukanhenkka @toolbear (Any of the ones except the first and last in that list should do.) :)
abucci@buc.ci
@aral@mastodon.ar.al @toolbear@tech.lgbt @davidrevoy@framapiaf.org
"Data is the new oil"
digitalRightsNinja@fedi.at
@laukanhenkka
FYI #Google is partnered with #Totaal oil company and uses AI to help Totaal determine where to drill. So @aral’s analogy would be slightly more spot-on with Total Oil. IIRC, #ExxonMobil is partnered with #Microsoft in the same way.
I should also mention that Mozilla gets ~87% of its funding from Google, fwiw.. might be easier to absorb than the raw figures.
I can’t view video ATM so if the talks already covered any of that, sorry for the redundancy.
(Original message has been truncated: read the complete original message here.)@toolbear
immibis@social.immibis.com
@aral @laukanhenkka @toolbear If Adolf Hitler offers you a billion dollars, do you take it?
Of course you do. Because then Adolf Hitler is a billion dollars poorer, and that's good for everyone.
aral@mastodon.ar.al
@immibis @laukanhenkka @toolbear Nah, fam, you just became a Nazi.
immibis@social.immibis.com
@aral @laukanhenkka @toolbear do you want Hitler to lose a billion dollars or not? I assume that you have no qualms about someone breaking into Hitler's vault, or hacking his bank account, and taking a billion dollars.
aral@mastodon.ar.al
@immibis @laukanhenkka @toolbear Stealing from is not the same as being paid by. You can see that, right?
(If the folks at Mozilla were stealing Google’s money, I’d be fine with it. Google and the police, probably not so much.)
immibis@social.immibis.com
@aral @laukanhenkka @toolbear in both cases the bad guy has less money and a better guy has more.
However, getting paid usually comes with some strings attached, and that's where the problem is.
Still, if Hitler would give me a billion dollars in exchange for writing "Jews must die" in giant letters on my fence, I think that would be a good tradeoff. That's basically what Mozilla has to do for Google: metaphorically write "Use Google to search" on the front of its building. Hitler being poorer does much more good for the world than a sign does bad. I might be obligated to donate the whole billion to an anti-Nazi charity.
aral@mastodon.ar.al
@immibis @laukanhenkka @toolbear Wow, man, I’m sorry but no. Just no. If that’s a trade you’re willing to make, we have nothing in common. And I’m blocking you now.
immibis@social.immibis.com
@aral @laukanhenkka @toolbear have it your way. Defederated
digitalRightsNinja@fedi.at
@immibis There’s an article out in the wild called “the power of defaults” which I suggest you read. Google and DDG both bribe browser makers to make their search service the default & Google obviously has deeper pockets for that. @aral @laukanhenkka @toolbear
immibis@social.immibis.com
@digitalRightsNinja @aral @laukanhenkka @toolbear and I'd rather have Firefox with a default Google search engine, than no Firefox.
walruslifestyle@octodon.social
@immibis @aral @laukanhenkka @toolbear Is this real? Someone who "gives you 1 billion dollars" doesn't have a truck full of cash that they roll up to your door and deliver to you. Do you even understand how the world works?
immibis@social.immibis.com
@walruslifestyle @aral @laukanhenkka @toolbear Is this real? Do you even understand how hypothetical situations work?
walruslifestyle@octodon.social
@immibis @aral @laukanhenkka @toolbear yes, I do. A hypothetical situation is one that is like reality, but different in an important way, and that difference often exposes important factors of the original situation.
Your example is a children's story, not a hypothetical situation. Supposing that someone "loses" a billion dollars when they contribute it to someone else is not grounded in how the real world works in any way. That's not a hypothetical, and it offers no insight into how the world works.
People with that much money don't roll a cart up to someone, give them the money, and walk away. That much money is tied up in assets and influence. That much money is usually transferred by creating an organized group of people to tend to the money, and through which its influence is controlled. That much money is game-changing. That much money is existential for most recipients, and they know that, and they adapt accordingly.
(Original message has been truncated: read the complete original message here.)immibis@social.immibis.com
@walruslifestyle you know what, this is your first contribution to the thread and it's completely stupid, so you can get blocked too.
walruslifestyle@octodon.social
@immibis lol
toolbear@tech.lgbt
@laukanhenkka @aral
I'm prone to Manichean thinking as well, but that isn't useful here. I won't be addressing the morality framing.
> I mean, wouldn't it be even worse if they weren't around?
Not necessarily. FF is using up the "browser for the people" mindshare — even in this conversation right now. If they didn't exist, maybe a browser making developer co-op would instead. Probably not, but FF doesn't exist in a vacuum. Even if they aren't useful idiots for Google or effectively bought, they using up resources for what could be a more democratic alternative. They aren't employee owned. They don't have a union.
An alternative company might not have dumped millions into AI snakeoil like FF just did.
FF corp isn't our friend. Isn't on our side. Isn't accountable to us.
Also, fuck their shielding of homophobe Brendan Eich. Not like that shit was a secret before he was ousted.
laukanhenkka@mastodonsuomi.fi
@toolbear Ok, so there are a lot of things that I just don't know about their practices. I need to read up and learn a bit more it seems.
@aral
aral@mastodon.ar.al
@toolbear Yep.
And if Google is seen as having too much vested interest in lobbying for a certain subject regarding regulation, Mozilla can step in as the acceptable face of Silicon Valley.
As their head of public policy once told me while asking me to go easier on them: “We’re just another Silicon Valley tech company, I don’t know why you’re holding us to such a higher standard.”
@laukanhenkka
OliverUv@mastodon.social
@laukanhenkka @aral they set Google to be the default search engine in FF
aral@mastodon.ar.al
@laukanhenkka Google is a publicly-traded corporation with a fiduciary duty to its shareholders.
They cannot just give some organisation half a billion dollars unless they can make the case that they’re getting more than half a billion dollars of value back from their investment.
Most visibly, Mozilla makes Google its default search engine on Firefox.
More than that, Mozilla gets to exist thanks to Google. No half a billion a year from Google, no Mozilla, no Firefox.
davidrevoy
@aral Thanks!
Yes, I knew that. Thank you for writing this, it is useful information.
It's hard to show all the subtle interactions and I had to sit on my own issues with Moz/Ff - e.g. all their failed non-sense side projects or recently their AI discourse to seduce investors.
It's a limitation of my illustration that I kept it as simple as possible to be more efficient with the message: if we all used Firefox with UblockOrigin, the toxic adv industry wouldn't be such a monster.
14 ★aral@mastodon.ar.al
I hear you and empathise :)
> if we all used Firefox with UblockOrigin, the toxic adv industry wouldn't be such a monster
If we all used Firefox with UblockOrigin, Google would go bankrupt. When Google goes bankrupt, Mozilla would lose the half a billion dollars it needs from Google to survive so Mozilla would also go bankrupt. So the only way Mozilla and Firefox can continue to exist is if we don’t all use Firefox with UblockOrigin. That’s the gambit.
★immibis@social.immibis.com
@aral Mozilla doesn't need to survive for Firefox to survive and be useful. There are already many forks of Firefox by people who think Mozilla already shouldn't have survived.
aral@mastodon.ar.al
@immibis And how many of those forks would be able to maintain their codebase if Mozilla went away tomorrow?
I’d optimistically put the number at zero.
But don’t worry, Google isn’t going anywhere so neither is Mozilla.
immibis@social.immibis.com
@aral OSS, uh, finds a way
OliverUv@mastodon.social
@aral @immibis
Without google or other ad-funded behemoths, web standard churn would be significantly reduced (and probably redirected to features people actually want).
Non-moz Firefox could keep up. It would be a slower pace than today, but it would be in a better direction.
digitalRightsNinja@fedi.at
@aral @immibis Those forks often nix Google as a default search engine, but the problem is the forks are far less popular so the masses do not escape the power of defaults. Also note the reason people favor the official version is to get fast security updates. Some of the forks have been shown to take weeks to apply a patch.
JerryMouse@infosec.place
For a thread about #foss vs #gacemafia #bigtech there is a lot of tracking going on from third party linking…
Just while typing this, #uBlockOrigin show additional 3 attempt of #tracking
Try to think of this.. (MarkDown Table)
+8/favicon.ico$image,3p,from=~4chan.org|~apple.com|~askubuntu.com|~bahn.de|~bt.com|~douban.com|~ebay.co.uk|~ebay.com|~ebay.com.au|~espn.com|~github.com|~go.com|~jit.si|~live.com|~microsoft.com|~reddit.com|~stackexchange.com|~stackoverflow.com|~streameast.live|~twitter.com|~winfuture.de|~yahoo.com–infosec.place3getimagehttps://tech.lgbt/favicon.ico+8/favicon.ico$image,3p,from=~4chan.org|~apple.com|~askubuntu.com|~bahn.de|~bt.com|~douban.com|~ebay.co.uk|~ebay.com|~ebay.com.au|~espn.com|~github.com|~go.com|~jit.si|~live.com|~microsoft.com|~reddit.com|~stackexchange.com|~stackoverflow.com|~streameast.live|~twitter.com|~winfuture.de|~yahoo.com–(Original message has been truncated: read the complete original message here.)zorumeart@mastodon.art
woah this is magnificient ! I love the idea and how you brought it to life. Truly beautiful 💙
zlender02@vivaldi.net
This drawing is amazing!
By the way, is the (fire)fox inspired by TUNIC?
codrusofathens@linuxrocks.online
Phenomenal!
sbrl@fediscience.org
This is an amazing piece of artwork. Firefox in many ways feels like the last bastion before total chrome domination (ref browser engines), and that's such a scary thought.
Google has far too much power now in setting web standards.
Edit: typo
gidja@tech.lgbt
😍
fanf42@treehouse.systems
this a marvel of hope. And despair.
Thank you, beautiful
thefuzzyfloof@meow.social
Amazing illustration! Nobody in my real life ever understands why Google's or Meta's internet monopolization is a problem, not even the ones familiar with tech at large.
veroandi@mastodon.social
I love this image! ❤️
★hyde@lazybear.social
this one is really great ... I mean all of your work is great, but I love that one !
★davidrevoy
@hyde 😊 Thank you!
gay_ornithischians@sauropods.win
absolute banger
★jerry@matrix.rocks
So good, so good, I love it and it have become the background image on @matrix.rocks
nizarus@mastodon.tn
Against the #DeathStar
teamtuck@mast.teamtuck.xyz
This is AMAZING!!!
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