How a kernel update broke my stylus... Need help!

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What's the problem?

In short, after a Linux kernel update (6.5.8-200.fc.x86_64 on Fedora KDE), I can't use the top button of my pen on my tablet. This is really affecting my digital painting workflow!

Right-clicking on the pen is an essential part of my workflow. Right-click on a layer in Krita to get the menu, right-click while using the Transform tool to get the transformation options, right-click on the canvas to get the pop-up palette! ...And I'm not even talking about how difficult it is to handle files and the D.E. without right-clicking.

And if that makes you smile, imagine someone hardcoding the behaviour of your main device like the right-click on your mouse or touchpad (or anything else you have been using for more than 20 years) to something completely useless, and pushing it through kernel updates. And the icing on the cake, they left you with no user tool to change it back.

That's where I am now, and you can probably understand why I decided to write a blog post about it. Because my ability to use my tablet and thus continue my webcomic Pepper&Carrot under Linux is now tied to an older kernel, 6.4.15-200.fc38.x86_64, until a kernel developer fixes this situation.


Grub page at startup: I now have to select the second kernel to escape the bug..

What happened?

Context: My XPPen 24 Artist Pro is my default tablet for productivity since April 2023. This tablet doesn't have a proper tablet driver under GNU/Linux. But it works thanks to a generic driver in the Linux kernel for the Uc-Logic/Ugee device; that is the name of the digitiser inside the tablet, the circuit board if you prefer. I also top this with some code from the Digimend-Kernel-Module. It requires a set of X11 rules and tweaks that I document in my review, but once that is done, you can customise the stylus buttons using the xsetwacom command line tool.

Unfortunately, in the newer Linux kernel of my distribution (6.5.8-200.fc.x86_64), there were some new commits that affected the behaviour of this generic hid-input.c driver. I don't know where it came from, but it was decided to hardcode a behaviour for styluses to have an 'eraser mode' instead of a 'right-click' on the second (top) button of the stylus.

For reference, here is the default on GNU/Linux, and has been since at least 2009 when I started drawing with it:

  • Button 1 (pen tip) = left mouse click; to select, to draw, etc...
  • Button 2 (down, on the side of the pen) = a middle mouse button, for panning the canvas or scrolling pages.
  • Button 3 (at the top of the pen) = a right click, for context menus.


The stylus of the XP-Pen Artist Pro 24, with the location of the second button underlined.

Where did the idea come from to map an eraser mode to a stylus button?

I can only speculate about this, but as far as I know, this type of behaviour was introduced by Microsoft for their Surfaces device on Ms Windows as a probable workaround for being too cheap to put an eraser on the other end of the stylus.

These Surfaces were aimed at business people and, as you can imagine, the pen was not intended to be used for drawing, but for signing documents or annotating PDFs. A side button eraser made sense to them. But what about right-clicking, you might ask? Well, these are 'touch' devices; the user could always use their finger with a long press and trigger a contextual right-click menu.

Soon after, I think Lenovo, HP and other tablet PC manufacturers were quick to imitate this new behaviour as brave sheep, and also to save some money on making styluses without a proper eraser on the other side.

So I can understand why a kernel developer thought it would be a good idea to bring this to GNU/Linux devices. Except they didn't just add it as a feature. It was forcing the behaviour on all users of the generic driver at the lowest possible level.

So I've lost my right-click on the second button of my stylus. And my device doesn't have a "touch mode".

Worse, ironically it even forces this behaviour on the stylus of my newer XPPEN 16 Artist Pro (Gen2) that I'm testing. Brace yourself: a stylus with a real eraser... This left me speechless.


The bug even affects stylus with an Eraser device, as on this stylus of the XP-Pen Artist Pro 16 (Gen2).

Can't you just customise a button on your Linux system?

This is the best part: no, you can't.

Because you see, instead of just sending a single event that could later be customised by a CLI tool like xsetwacom, a desktop environment like kcm-tablet Plasma Panel, or even a udev rule; this kind of behaviour is hardcoded in, so the button sends too many events to map to anything. The button doesn't trigger a key, it switches the whole device to something else when pressed.

From my understanding; forcing this behaviour for the Uc-logic/Ugee generic tablet has been done for a long time; but a "bug" kept the stylus of my XPPEN Artist 24 Pro out of it, and this commit probably fixed it in the worst for me. I now know it is there for a long time, because even with the "old" kernel, my newer XPPen 16 Pro (gen2) also reacts this way.

And no tools can fix it now. Are we doomed to have an eraser on the second key?

Or is there anything else we can do?

Please help if you can.




Update:

2023-11-09: It works! Benjamin Tissoires made a solution. I tested it and I'm no longer locked to a kernel, you can know more about it on the Mailing list. The solution solves the issue for the two devices I have.
2023-11-07: You can follow the discussion on the Linux kernel mailing list here.
2023-11-01: (Additional technical infos) Here are two evtest screenshots of the two devices with the newer kernel while performing a top button on the stylus (click to enlarge).


128 comments

link WelshPixie, Buttwitch   - Reply
welshpixie@mastodon.art

nooooooooo that's awful 😭 Hope you can figure it out!

link David Revoy Author, - Reply
davidrevoy

@welshpixie Thanks!

link opal hart   - Reply
opal@ap.maladaptive.art

i was gonna ask if you could git-bisect to see exactly what code changed this, but it seems like you dug deep enough to figure out whats going on. so are you looking for a workaround, a code patch to revert to the old behaviour, or do you just want this fixed upstream?

link David Revoy Author, - Reply
davidrevoy

@opal Thanks, yes, that's where I am. Thank you for reading and understanding.

I would like both I think:
- A short term 'workaround' in priority if someone knows a tool able to bypass this type of BTN_TOOL_RUBBER events in the userspace and give back a Mouse right click instead would be great.
- I also would like if the issue can be fixed at origin; or assistance in how I could get a better support of the tablet without having to relly on the generic driver. But that's more long term, imo.

link Sabrina   - Reply
cherryband@c.im

one small detail cuz i own a surface pen: the eraser is actually an eraser on the back, albeit without pressure sensitivity. it is also a button (has 2 different actuation modes), and there's only one side button on surface pen.

link David Revoy Author, - Reply
davidrevoy

@cherryband Ha, true. Exact; a long press on it is also used to wakeup the device or pair it in Bluetooth (or another protocol) as far as I remember?

link Sabrina   - Reply
cherryband@c.im

yes there's single, double, and long press. pressing it for 5 seconds or something brings it into bluetooth pairing mode. it also has a magnetic sensor which turns it off when attached to a surface tablet.

link Settantahertz   - Reply
70hz@livellosegreto.it

oh nooooo! (Un) fortunately I'm still on Mint's kernel series, but I hope someone will fix this...

link Efi (nap pet) 🦊💤   - Reply
efi@chitter.xyz

I assume you already told the linux devs?

link David Revoy Author, - Reply
davidrevoy

@efi No, I can't. They removed the issues on github.com/torvalds/linux and I couldn't understand where to locate a replacement in this kernel.org/doc/html/latest/adm , I need help even to report the issue.

5 ★

link Ryuno-Ki   - Reply
RyunoKi@layer8.space

@efi One of the kernel maintainers, @gregkh on fedi.

link Efi (nap pet) 🦊💤   - Reply
efi@chitter.xyz

in this page kernel.org/doc/html/latest/pro you can scroll down (^F usb hid) and see that the maintainer of the hid drivers is mentioned in the commit you linked, so you'd want to email linux-usb@vger.kernel.org with CC jikos@kernel.org and just tell them about the problem, link them to the article and ask them to forward it if someone else should know

link David Revoy Author, - Reply
davidrevoy

@efi Thank you for the assistance. I'll do. 👍

3 ★

link Efi (nap pet) 🦊💤   - Reply
efi@chitter.xyz

make sure to mention you are not making a proper bug report because you are not a kernel developer so they forward it to whoever can actually make the report

link WelshPixie, Buttwitch   - Reply
welshpixie@mastodon.art

@efi ::headpats Efi:: :blobfoxpat: good Efi :artpaw:

link Gonzalo   - Reply
grilix@mastodon.social

@efi this sucks so bad, I'm so sorry. In the commit you found, there are the email addresses of the people involved on the change, might be worth it checking in with them? I hope you find a solution.

link Efi (nap pet) 🦊💤   - Reply
efi@chitter.xyz

@grilix already done, friend =P

link David Revoy Author, - Reply
davidrevoy

@grilix Thank you Gonzalo, it was done, I was well adviced. 😉

You'll find my email who now reached the mailing list: lore.kernel.org/linux-input/ny

@efi

4 ★

link Efi (nap pet) 🦊💤   - Reply
efi@chitter.xyz

@grilix I think next time you should jort.link/ it so the site doesn't get ddos'd

link David Revoy Author, - Reply
davidrevoy

@efi Oh thank you. Very interesting tool and content. I learned something with it, I had no idea Mastodon did that.

I also just learned my blog post is in homepage of Hacker News , and the link is part of the comments: news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3

Poor mailing-list server. :blobwhistle:

@grilix

2 ★

link Efi (nap pet) 🦊💤   - Reply
efi@chitter.xyz

looks like it's making ripples like a good ol' kernel bug should lmao

link Arne Babenhauserheide   - Reply
ArneBab@rollenspiel.social

nice! Thank you for reporting the bug! @grilix @efi

link alarig   - Reply
alarig@hostux.social

@efi The ML to report bugs in hid/ dir is lore.kernel.org/linux-input/

link Jaco G   - Reply
jaco@peoplemaking.games

Did you include the cartoon with your bug report? If yes I bet it gets fixed sooner.

link bitcrush.io   - Reply
bitcrush_io@oldbytes.space

@jaco
Yeah I came here just to say how much I like the illustration.

link 翠星石   - Reply
Suiseiseki@freesoftwareextremist.com

One way I can think of that doesn't consist of having to git-bisect and patch the eraser part to work correctly would be to disable the digimend modules and then compile an older version of digimend with the wanted behavior out of tree via DKMS, although it seems that won't work for that many future Linux version.

link Andrew Graves :arch: :linux:   - Reply
graves501@fosstodon.org

Is there an option to just stick with LTS kernels on Fedora? I usually stick with LTS kernels because of situations like this 🤔 But it's good that you're reporting this issue.

link Piggo :verified_horse:   - Reply
piggo@piggo.space

A similar "improvement" broke scrolling on my MX Master mouse. Luckily that was handled in libinput and they later added a special config you can set to disable "HID scrolling" again

link Sybren Stüvel 🔶   - Reply
sybren@mastodon.art

oh damn, that's bad! Why on earth wouldn't they just send another button event that any user space app could use?

link Arne Babenhauserheide   - Reply
ArneBab@rollenspiel.social

Since the kernel has a long standing policy not to break userspace, I expect that they will fix this — for example by accepting that the original commit had a conceptual problem that wasn’t detected due to the bug.

They write "These changes are tested in the following hid-tools regression tests:
gitlab.freedesktop.org/libevde " and I would hope that without the other bug this would have detected that the stylus button gets rendered useless that way.

But first of all: Good luck!

link maxmoon 🌱   - Reply
utopify_org@veganism.social

This is just beautiful 😀

Never had such a beautiful illustration of Linux breaking stuff.

link Ryuno-Ki   - Reply
RyunoKi@layer8.space

👆 Who would be best to talk about this, @cas ?

link Neal Gompa (ニール・ゴンパ) :fedora:   - Reply
Conan_Kudo@fosstodon.org

I believe most of this stylus support was written by @jose_exposito. Maybe he can help fix this?

Also, my reading of gitlab.com/cki-project/kernel- makes me think that it was busted by this commit?

gitlab.com/cki-project/kernel-

Please file a bug report in the Red Hat Bugzilla against the kernel package. bugzilla.redhat.com/enter_bug.

(Original message has been truncated: read the complete original message here.)

link José Expósito   - Reply
jose_exposito@fosstodon.org

@Conan_Kudo indeed, I added support for a bunch of XP-Pen tablets, but none of them was an Artist.

I believe the commit you mentioned is causing the issue. Since you already submitted it upstream, the author will probably look into it and fix it.

If you are willing to test a with me a kernel driver I can add support for your tablet on the UCLogic driver and get it to work with no/minimum configuration. Feel free to ping me and I'll help you.

link David Revoy Author, - Reply
davidrevoy

@jose_exposito Hey Jose, thank you for your work on the built-in drivers I'm familiar with your work thanks to the news on Phoronix ( phoronix.com/news/Linux-5.20-X or phoronix.com/news/XP-PEN-Deco- ) that I read carefully, especially when it is about tablets 🙂

Sure, I can collaborate and give you as many feedback as necessary and tests. Thank you! You know my email now (you are in CC on mail thread "Requesting your attention and expertise regarding a Tablet/Kernel issue")

@Conan_Kudo

3 ★

link José Expósito   - Reply
jose_exposito@fosstodon.org

@Conan_Kudo It looks like Benjamin is going to handle it. Which is great, because I can only work on this during the weekend and he'll be able to provide a fix way faster :)

link David Revoy Author, - Reply
davidrevoy

@jose_exposito Thanks, I just read the mailing-list. I'll go back in the backlog of it to provide all information asked. I'm not sure if Eric answer contains everything.

@Conan_Kudo

link 4censord   - Reply
4censord@unfug.social

If you are able to compile a kernel by yourself, you could test if it actually is the one commit that you mentioned in your blog post.

Also, definitely let the kernel devs know that this broke your system.

link Hobs :archlinux: :kde: :linux:   - Reply
Hobs@social.linux.pizza

Ask the linux devs. @torvalds is on here at least. As well as @linux and @vegard

You should probably file a bug report on github though.

link Hobs :archlinux: :kde: :linux:   - Reply
Hobs@social.linux.pizza

@torvalds @linux @vegard

Or find the maintainer of the driver and report to them

link David Revoy Author, - Reply
davidrevoy

@Hobs Hi, that's what I'll try. But it is a bit more complicate to report a bug to the kernel than just opening a thread on the Github "issues". If you look at it, you'll not even see such a section on Github: github.com/torvalds/linux

Here is how you have to do it: kernel.org/doc/html/latest/adm , and even the TL:DR; would require a TL:DR; written by someone not confusing, imo. Good luck.

link Hobs :archlinux: :kde: :linux:   - Reply
Hobs@social.linux.pizza

You have the contact info for the main dev right there in the link in your blog post. E-mail him github.com/torvalds/linux/blob

link opal hart   - Reply
opal@ap.maladaptive.art

@Hobs @torvalds @vegard i'd sooner post to lkml since github seems to be secondary for their devs to check

link opal hart   - Reply
opal@ap.maladaptive.art

@Hobs @torvalds @vegard ah @efi got to it before me, yeah linux-usb@

link hinindil   - Reply
hinindil@paravielfalt.zone

That's the best way to illustrate a bug.

link Mahid Sheikh   - Reply
standingpad@mastodon.art

this is something open source projects sadly do too often. Just recently, Blender changed how point lights were interpeted lately, without any discussion on older files or implications for non-photorealistic rendering (that's been fun back and forth with the devs and I)

I suggest letting the kernel devs know, I'd imagine they'd take this pretty seriously (since rule number 1 of Linux kernel development is "don't break the userspace")

link Mahid Sheikh   - Reply
standingpad@mastodon.art

looking at the Git history, this might be the culprit: github.com/torvalds/linux/comm

link David Revoy Author, - Reply
davidrevoy

@standingpad Thank you, that's also where my conclusion (the link in the last paragraph) is redirected.

Unfortunately, letting the kernel dev knowing about this is really hard (no 'issues' on Github, and the doc for reporting is .... well kernel.org/doc/html/latest/adm ). Doing a blog post was my best option.

link Vegard Nossum   - Reply
vegard@mastodon.social

@standingpad So normally you would report this to your distribution (Fedora) since this is a distro kernel -- upstream maintainers don't really know what patches are in your fedora kernel and can't take responsibility for it.

That said, it looks like the linked commit is a fix that probably isn't in your newer kernel, so there's some hope an even newer Fedora kernel will "magically" have the fix in a little while.

link Vegard Nossum   - Reply
vegard@mastodon.social

@standingpad If you're up for building your own kernel you could try taking the fedora config (probably one of your /boot/config* files), copy it to .config in the kernel source tree and run "make binrpm-pkg" to build it.

link David Revoy Author, - Reply
davidrevoy

@vegard @standingpad Thank you for the information.

Ping @efi ; do you think it is still safe to send the issue to the kernel mailing list? I don't want to do any "faux pas" 🙂

link Efi (nap pet) 🦊💤   - Reply
efi@chitter.xyz

@vegard @standingpad maybe not, send it directly to the maintainer as a regular mail

link David Revoy Author, - Reply
davidrevoy

@efi @vegard @standingpad Ok.

link David Revoy Author, - Reply
davidrevoy

@efi @vegard @standingpad Email sent to four maintainer and reviewer involved, and Jiri Kosina just replied adding CC to 9 other people involved and mailing-list. 🎉

Thanks for the recommandation. I think the info is in the right pipes now.

8 ★

link Efi (nap pet) 🦊💤   - Reply
efi@chitter.xyz

💃

link Mahid Sheikh   - Reply
standingpad@mastodon.art

@vegard oh yeah, I forgot most distros patch the kernel (I use an unpatched kernel), that would certainly add an additional variable to this issue

link Greg K-H   - Reply
gregkh@social.kernel.org

@standingpad Use email, that's how the kernel is developed and how bugs are reported, send it to the author of that commit and the mailing list listed in the MAINTAINERS file for the subsystem.

No need to file some ticket in some random web form with some odd account, email. It's simple, and easy (note, turn off HTML mode for it please.)

Good luck!

link David Revoy Author, - Reply
davidrevoy

@gregkh Thank you about the formating tip (in plain text mode) I'll do my best!

@standingpad

2 ★

link elly   - Reply
elly@donotsta.re

Mind capturing libinput events? Does it correspond to 0x141?

link David Revoy Author, - Reply
davidrevoy

@elly Mind capturing, mind capturing :blobaww: I have to try! 🤣

(About the name/id of the events; I added a new screenshot at the end of the article; with evtest of the two tablet while pressing the button.)

link elly   - Reply
elly@donotsta.re

Oh, that works actually! Thanks, will take a look (but I've got a feeling that someone will drop a patch in within minutes now lol)

link Kathy Murdoch :pastille_lemon:   - Reply
kapellosaur@stctp.zone

oh god, this sounds like a nightmare. I'm also very reliant on that button on my Wacom tablet being a right click.

link David Revoy Author, - Reply
davidrevoy

@kapellosaur Thank you for understanding. I hope it will be fixed!

(If it does, I'll draw a Tux repairing the stylus ☺️ )

4 ★

link Kathy Murdoch :pastille_lemon:   - Reply
kapellosaur@stctp.zone

I'm a Linux user myself so I'm now forbidding myself from updating my kernel until further notice 😂

link Grum999 :verified:   - Reply
grum999@masto.ai

didn't updated yet my kernel.. take care the old one that is working is not removed by an "autoclean" or something like this :ablobcatknitsweats:

I have to check, but few years ago a kernel change broke my XP Pen tablet recognition too
before this change, tweaking setup was easy, after it was really hard (had to play with udev to fix broken things, not on pen side but more related to tablet buttons)

link AlexanderMars   - Reply
AlexanderMars@mastodon.social

I use Krita/Inkscape on my SP6 running Linux and know this type of pain very well.

link Jakob (Jack/Jackie)   - Reply
jakob@mastodon.chaosfield.at

I think I might have some interesting context for this:
Wacom "Penabled" does not have a second button but you can still get pens that have a second button for it. In those cases the second button switches the pen into a mode where the tablet thinks it's an eraser.
The Wacom Linux drivers have a workaround for that that detects when the pen suddenly turns into an eraser and interprets this as "upper button pressed".
Might be related in some way?

link David Revoy Author, - Reply
davidrevoy

@jakob Hi, yes, it is probably related. I met this type of button on the Lenovo Yoga 370 (my full review and workaround: davidrevoy.com/article976/leno ) It's still possible to inject something via xsetwacom. The syntax is a bit weird:

xsetwacom --set "$YogaEraser" Button 1 "key +ctrl button 1 key -ctrl" # color picker

(for a Ctrl color picker modifier) and an eraser icon still appears on Krita, but it pick colors. On the XpPen, this workaround even doesn't work.

2 ★

link Jakob (Jack/Jackie)   - Reply
jakob@mastodon.chaosfield.at

Yeah sadly the configuration options of most other tablet drivers on Linux are "meh" compared to the Wacom driver (and even that isn't perfect).
I would really like seeing the Wacom driver to be changed into something more generic so that xsetwacom (and GUI tools for it) work for all the other brands as well...

link David Revoy Author, - Reply
davidrevoy

@jakob Same, a universal "tablet GUI" cross distro and cross D.E. would be great...

link Zakaria Chahboun   - Reply
zaki@bassam.social

Yes there is one Open Tablet Driver https://opentabletdriver.net/

link David Revoy Author, - Reply
davidrevoy

@zaki Hi, Zakaria; oh, there are more than one but they are rarely functional or working.

Have you tested it on Linux? with what tablet model?

@jakob

link Zakaria Chahboun   - Reply
zaki@bassam.social

Of course, I already made a tutorial about it in my channel (in Arabic)
https://youtu.be/Yfmutvs3yxI?si=BO-qBCtxUKSWHF08

It's really great, my table is Gaomon M10K pro, BTW it's working without kernel injection, just in the user layer

link David Revoy Author, - Reply
davidrevoy

@zaki @jakob Very interesting! Thanks for the link and for testing.

I have also a variant of this tablet (the 2018, not the pro model) davidrevoy.com/article870/revi

I'll test 👍 Got Huion, Xp-Pens, and more at home to see how it works. :blobaww:

(edit: perfect, you detail all the steps, that's great!)

link Zakaria Chahboun   - Reply
zaki@bassam.social

You are welcome 🌹

link Zakaria Chahboun   - Reply
zaki@bassam.social

There is more x)
https://youtu.be/pTWOjonO0po

link ElectroFetish   - Reply
ElectroFetish@mastodon.social

I have a principle:
If you want stability, it's better not to touch
Any renewal is evil!

Maybe someone doesn't like it, but it's the only way to get a working machine always.

link David Revoy Author, - Reply
davidrevoy

@ElectroFetish I agree. I'm tempted to change my machine from Fedora KDE to Debian KDE to increase my peace of mind.

link opal hart   - Reply
opal@ap.maladaptive.art

@ElectroFetish until things still manage to break

link der.hans   - Reply
lufthans@mastodon.social

when is your book of illustrated bug reports coming out?

:)

link David Revoy Author, - Reply
davidrevoy

@lufthans 🤣 🤣 🤣

2 ★

link Craig Maloney ☕ Contributor - Pepper&Carrot admin, - Reply
craigmaloney@octodon.social

@lufthans I feel an April Fools "ha ha only serious" product in the making. 😉

link der.hans   - Reply
lufthans@mastodon.social

@craigmaloney April Fools or this is David's way to get a trip to the Linux Plumbers' Conference, he can live illustrate bugs on the screen during their panels!

link ploum   - Reply
ploum@mamot.fr

: mais comment t’es arrivé à la conclusion que c’était le kernel?

J’aurais investigué tout tout tout avant le kernel!

link David Revoy Author, - Reply
davidrevoy

@ploum Ben j'ai investigué tout tout tout avant le kernel. En fait, j'ai repris toute la stack, de libinput avec libwacom dedans, au module Digimend qui plug des truc pour tablets jusqu'au Kernel. J'ai choper des bons cernes et une nuit blanche dans le processus; mais chez moi, ce genre d'annomalie est litteralement le truc qui m'empêche de dormir. Je pense qu'on est beaucoup comme ça chez les geek libristes.

5 ★

link ploum   - Reply
ploum@mamot.fr

: je me disais aussi. Ton post rend le tout fort simple mais ça sent les journées moisies et improductives à fouiller les mailing-lists, les repo git.

Mais, au final, t’auras fait la première page de HN et tu recevras ptêtre un bisou de Linus Torvalds pour raconter à tes petits enfants.

Yep, c’est ça le libre ! 😄

Courage et bon repos (en espérant que ça soit bientôt résolu)

(d’ailleurs t’as vu l’heure ?)

link David Revoy Author, - Reply
davidrevoy

@ploum Oh, je savais pas que c'était sur HN, merci!
(et oui oui, j'ai fait le tour des issues de plein de projets, des mailing lists le tout en maudissant les moteurs de recherches 'modernes' ou je trouve plus rien.)

(oops pour l'heure, en plus il faut que je finisse mon sac: demain voyage jusque Saint-Brieuc pour l'expo malgrès vents et marés!)

4 ★

link F4GRX Sébastien   - Reply
f4grx@chaos.social

@ploum accroche toi bien a tes stylos, ca a l'air de souffler pas mal!

link crlf   - Reply
crlf@infosec.exchange

It's like an actual xkcd.com/1172/ They fix a bug affecting the XPPEN Artist 24 Pro, and this appears pointing out that broke his workflow and Linux shouldn't be forcing two eraser buttons on stylus devices, go figure.

#xkcd #xkcd1172

link Kevin Karhan :verified:   - Reply
kkarhan@mstdn.social

I do recommend you to open up an #issue with the #LKML if this issue is also reproducible on other distros with the same or newer #kernel.

Your post does show that you did your due diligence and found the culprit that caused that problem...

kernel.org/doc/html/latest/adm

link David Revoy Author, - Reply
davidrevoy

@kkarhan Hi, thanks. It was done by developers and poeple expert in this area. They relayed my email to the mailing-list. I can't do more because I own only a single email adress at @protonmail , but it is not an email provider admited by the kernel mailing list (src: the doc of the kernel) as protonmail can't do plain text with proper line breaks and the encryption makes friction on the mailing-list. Something I wish I knew when I moved to Proton 5 years ago... So, I can't interact.

3 ★

link Kevin Karhan :verified:   - Reply
kkarhan@mstdn.social

so let me get this straight: @protonmail fucks with customers' eMails?
That's a huge no-go IMHO because that's just inexcuseable!

Not that I'd consider #ProtonMail at all but it's just a big red flag to me even if I were to use them, because if a provider is #paywalling #IMAP & #SMTP they should be better than any generic "#Freemailer" that doesn't.
Because that makes it useless for a lot of my tech stack: What's the point of an eMail provider if I can't use it with a

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link David Revoy Author, - Reply
davidrevoy

@kkarhan @protonmail Yes, source: docs.kernel.org/process/email- , the last item on bottom of the page.

"Unless a way to disable this "feature" is introduced, Proton Mail is unsuited to kernel development."

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link Kevin Karhan :verified:   - Reply
kkarhan@mstdn.social

Seriously, WTF @protonmail ?

#YouHadOneJob as #eMail #Provider and that is to get shit reliably sent and recieved.

If that's too hard then how should anyone trust them re: #security and #privacy?
Spoiler: Noine should!
youtube.com/watch?v=QCx_G_R0Um

link Kevin Karhan :verified:   - Reply
kkarhan@mstdn.social

@protonmail
The longer I look at them, the more it reminds me of #CryptoAG...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crypto_A

It has the same "stench" and "notoriety" to the point that I'd call the same 3-letter-agencies "criminally incompetent" if they didn't already place multiple people inside if not set it up as replacement for #MINERVA...
youtube.com/watch?v=IeXaYR4ed9

link Proton Mail   - Reply
protonmail@mastodon.social

@kkarhan There is no comparison between Crypto AG and us. Our encryption occurs client-side, our cryptographic code is open source ( proton.me/community/open-sourc ), and our tech can and has been independently verified. More here: proton.me/blog/is-protonmail-t

link Kevin Karhan :verified:   - Reply
kkarhan@mstdn.social

@protonmail How can the end-user know that they're getting what you claimed and has been verified?

Spoiler: They can't!

So again that's some marketing speak.

I'd rather have you be honest like cock.li instead of insulting my intellect.

Needless to say.that fucking around with the contents of any eMail is a big No-Go as it bricks my workflows as well AND you - as any other eMail provider - have no business doing so!!!

link Kevin Karhan :verified:   - Reply
kkarhan@mstdn.social

@protonmail if you actually cared about #privacy and #anonymity you'd not only fix your #OnionService AND allow anonymous payment (i.e. #Monero :monero:) but also help users to setup proper #E2EE like PGP/MIME and instead of fucking around with their eMail contents in transit, offer something that would actually make sense like the option to block unencrypted eMail going out and/or in.
But that would require effort beyond

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link Proton Mail   - Reply
protonmail@mastodon.social

@kkarhan We have a working onion service: proton.me/tor. If you encountered any issues with it, please contact us at: proton.me/support/contact.

We allow alternative payment options, such as Bitcoin and cash: proton.me/support/payment-opti.

Proton Mail gives users the opportunity to import, export, backup, generate, and delete their own PGP keys, as you can learn here: proton.me/support/pgp-key-mana

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link Kevin Karhan :verified:   - Reply
kkarhan@mstdn.social

@protonmail Have you fixed the issues outlined in this video?
youtube.com/watch?v=IeXaYR4ed9

Yes or no??

link Proton Mail   - Reply
protonmail@mastodon.social

@kkarhan It's been proven in multiple independent audits as well as court cases that our systems work as advertised.

link 🅺🅸🅼 🆂🅲🅷🆄🅻🆉   - Reply
kimschulz@social.data.coop

@kkarhan @protonmail thats like 2 years old

link Kevin Karhan :verified:   - Reply
kkarhan@mstdn.social

@kimschulz doesn't make it less true to this day, m8.

Call me weird but @protonmail rubs me in all the wrong spots...
mstdn.social/@kkarhan/11134011

link Proton Mail   - Reply
protonmail@mastodon.social

@kkarhan Hi Kevin! As explained previously, this case shows that we do provide privacy by default - even in cases when we receive a legal request we cannot contest, we are not able to share the encrypted content on our service with the authorities. All we have is the extremely limited metadata that we need for the services to function properly. If anonymity is part of your threat model, here are some tips: proton.me/blog/how-to-send-an- and proton.me/blog/use-protonmail-.

link Proton Mail   - Reply
protonmail@mastodon.social

@kkarhan This is really an issue with WKD not having a mechanism by which the key server can indicate whether they want encrypted email by default or not. However, we can block kernel.org specifically to fix this, if they reach out to us.

link Fell   - Reply
fell@ma.fellr.net

@protonmail @kkarhan Tagging @monsieuricon because I think he would be the one to reach out to @protonmail on this matter.

link Kevin Karhan :verified:   - Reply
kkarhan@mstdn.social

@fell @monsieuricon also WHY should this be a problem for @linux / kernel.org to fix, @protonmail?

It's YOUR #Mailserver and YOUR Service not theirs.

Just don't fuck with customers' eMails FFS!
social.kernel.org/objects/b72e

To me this is entirely undesireable behaviour for any eMail-Provider but then again so is the entire proposition of not using real

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link Proton Mail   - Reply
protonmail@mastodon.social

@kkarhan @fell @monsieuricon We did not intend to say that think we say it’s their problem, it’s simply an unfortunate ambiguity in the WKD spec that doesn’t specify how the domain wants the keys to be used.

link K. Ryabitsev   - Reply
monsieuricon@social.kernel.org

@protonmail @kkarhan Having a WKD doesn't imply we want to receive PGP encrypted mail -- its primary purpose is to make it easy to retrieve keys for signature verification on git commits and packaged releases. If you can turn this off for kernel.org addresses, then please do so.

link Kevin Karhan :verified:   - Reply
kkarhan@mstdn.social

@monsieuricon +9001%
To me @protonmail messing with customers' eMails in any shape or form is an absolute no-go!

Espechally given that they literally #paywall #SMTP & #IMAP "to protect from #Spanning".

The only legitimate reason they should ever do anything like it is if they - as bona-fide provider - get actually forced by a swiss judge to do so.

Otherwise it's only harmful to users of actual

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link Proton Mail   - Reply
protonmail@mastodon.social

@monsieuricon @kkarhan Thank you for contacting us, we can confirm that we are now implementing a change.

link Kevin Karhan :verified:   - Reply
kkarhan@mstdn.social

@protonmail @monsieuricon It should just not be a necessity to get in contact with you on the first place ffs!!!

DO :clapping: NOT :clapping: FIDDLE :clapping: WITH :clapping: CUSTOMER :clapping: EMAILS :clapping: !

link ꧁~Cyan𝕮𝖊𝖆~꧂ :blobcatdj:   - Reply
alcea@pb.todon.de

@kkarhan

I cant even sort my mails anymore lol

link Kevin Karhan :verified:   - Reply
kkarhan@mstdn.social

@alcea I guess @protonmail is utterly useless because even shitty #honeypots like #DNMX allowed that...

link K. Ryabitsev   - Reply
monsieuricon@social.kernel.org

I'm sorry you didn't have a great experience -- fwiw, I'm working on making it easy to report bugs via bugzilla.kernel.org and actually have that be effective.

link David Revoy Author, - Reply
davidrevoy

@monsieuricon thank you, and no problem. I understand a mailing list system to report require disciplin, spec and formating for all these team to collaborate. I less understood why Protonmail couldn't provide this tool. I thought they were more FOSS friendly...

Thank you for the link, and the tracker! I'll have a look.

3 ★

link K. Ryabitsev   - Reply
monsieuricon@social.kernel.org

Since you're a Fedora user, the most proper way to do this is to report a bug to the Fedora bug tracker. The Fedora kernel maintainers will then work with the upstream kernel to get this solved. This way you don't need to worry about Protonmail problems *and* you will follow the correct procedure.

link David Revoy Author, - Reply
davidrevoy

@monsieuricon Right 👍 Thank you for the guidance. Very appreciated,, I'll do.

4 ★

link Jan Wildeboer 😷:krulorange:   - Reply
jwildeboer@social.wildeboer.net

@monsieuricon And also say hi to @mairin who has deep knowledge of Fedora, graphic tablets and who to talk to when problems arise ;)

link Máirín Ní Dhufaigh ᚋᚐᚐᚔᚏᚔᚔᚅ   - Reply
mairin@mastodon.social

@jwildeboer @monsieuricon mairin@mastodon.ie :-)

link Martin Owens   - Reply
doctormo@floss.social

In an extreme case, you could have the older driver packaged into a dkms rpm package. These get recompiled whenever the kernel is updated, so you don't have to compile the whole kernel with your customised drivers but you do get to have control over this one module.

But obviously, forking even a small bit of code can be a lot to take on. Better to get it fixed upstream somehow.

link David Revoy Author, - Reply
davidrevoy

@doctormo Thanks! Yes, it goes a bit beyond my current skill, but I started to have a look at how the digimend kernel module was doing things.

Making a small dedicated module that ensure the side buttons of stylus doesn't enter into any eraser mode sounds like a good idea if the situation become stagnant. I more and more understand how this modules can ammend existing code, and how they are not that hard to apply via DKMS.

But I lack of the main skill: editing the code. 🙃😆

4 ★

link leap123 :steamhappy:   - Reply
leap123@wetdry.world

this pic goes hard feel free to screenshot

link Puniko :verifiedsabakan: :disability_flag:   - Reply
puniko@mk.absturztau.be

@davidrevoy@framapiaf.org ooof thats annoying

link Mango   - Reply
ilya_mzp@social.mango.vg

I'm not sure your tablet model would work with it, but you can give a try to github.com/OpenTabletDriver/Op
I too have an Xp-pen tablet that broke with a kernel update. Luckily OpenTabletDriver works just as good as it used to work with the older kernel.

link Konqi   - Reply
Konqi@mastodon.social

that little penguin there need to calm down...

link Ölbaum   - Reply
oscherler@tooting.ch

I’m wondering if one of those utilities might work around the problem by changing the event before it’s seen by the rest of the input pipeline, or if it’s already too late.

wiki.archlinux.org/title/Input

link Saturn Studio   - Reply
saturnstudio@mas.to

Out of curiosity, have you tried the recent userspace driver provided by XP-Pen? I avoided it before because they had no tilt implementation on the Linux side, but I recently started using it and it seems to be working for me. I am on Kernel 6.5.9 and the XP-Pen app allows me to remap my stylus buttons.


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